David: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Lexicon Late Night. I’m your host, David Norcross, here with my co-host Justin St-Denis. Today, we’re going to continue to tell you about one of our favorite storytellers. Who do we have today?

Justin: Yeah, today we have Mark Normand comedy. There he is. Yeah, we’re really doing it, folks. Hey hey, hey.

David: So these callbacks will come back later. Keep an eye on them. So Mark Normand  is another comedian, Justin?

Justin: Yes. Um, I think we could even just rename this series. Justin and David talk about comedians. Um, but from some of the feedback we’ve been getting, people are enjoying watching the show. And you mentioned they like our nerdy passion that we have for comedy that really shines through, even if we’re not necessarily as funny as the comedians we’re talking about. So might as well just keep talking about what we know. And, you know, the purpose of this show is for us to explore some of the greatest storytellers and comedians are fantastic storytellers. And then they often have really interesting lessons that business leaders can use, so it might as well keep going with the format.

David: So no doubt this will not be the last episode about a comedian, but I can give you this Lexicon guarantee there will be no Michael McIntyre episode.

Justin: No. I barely even know who that is. So, are you not a fan? I know he’s British. Not a fan. Not a fan. I’m kind of prejudiced against British comedians, but that’s another topic.

David: This is another topic. So on to today’s topic.

Justin: That’s right.

David: What can Mark Normand teach us about business, Justin?

Justin: There’s a whole bunch that he can teach us about business, and we’ll get into that. We’ll show some clips and we’ll discuss them. So many, many things like some of the other comedians as well. So he’s been very successful on social media. He’s built up a fan base on YouTube primarily, and now he’s really made it like he’s doing theaters. He went from doing clubs to being a major comedian right now. Um, there’s also lessons about clarity of speech, about word economy, writing tips and so on. He’s a very effective joke teller. There’s not an ounce of fat on any of his jokes. He’s a master of analogies. And then also, much like Patrice O’Neil, he was very good at outreach. He was he’s often a guest on other people’s podcasts, like the Joe Rogan Podcast. He creates his own. So we’ll get into all of that in this episode.

David: Shall we start with something for the folks at home? Maybe a clip?

Justin: Yeah, sure. Let’s do it. Let’s go. Clip number one. And let’s watch it.

Clip: I’m working on it. Trying to get better. Flew here from New York. Man, I hate flying. You know, they let you pick your seat on a plane. I think I’d rather pick the person I’m sitting next to. I don’t really give a sh** where I am on the plane. It’s like a five hour relationship. Make it more like a dating app. Obese Nazi with a service dog. Swipe left. Hey, tiny Asian lady with a surgical mask. That’s my girl. Yes, she is not a talker, right? But just like a dating app, she shows up with a baby. I’m like, ah, I got catfished. I hate the small talk. Two things I can’t do small talk and eye contact. How sad is that? You know, I basically have all the traits of a serial killer just without the ambition. Yeah, I’m working on it. People always say, Mark got to be more confident. They say, Mark got to be yourself. I’m like, well, you got to pick one. I can’t do both of those.

Justin: Yeah. Tiny Asian lady with a surgical mask. That’s my girl.

David: Baby on a plane. Never good.

Justin: Yeah. Babies have a right to fly, too. I never really understood that. Like, why just keep your baby at home for the first couple of years? Wait till they’re old enough to be people.

David: 20 – 21.

Justin: Yeah, yeah, wait till they’re. Wait till they’re 17 or something like that. Um, okay. That’s we’re going off on a tangent here, but, um, so this clip was taken from his special Out to Lunch, which he released on YouTube, uh, two years ago, roughly. Um, and it’s got 10 million views now. Amazing. So what can this teach us? Is this overnight success?

David: No. I think the story of Mark Normand is a story that has a lot of analogies for business leaders. So he’d been a comedian for ten years, 15 years, working the clubs, doing late night. But he just wasn’t breaking through. People hadn’t heard of him. He wasn’t getting the attendance at his gigs that he would hope for. He wasn’t smashing it, but he’s a master craftsman and he rather than sell his special to Paramount or Comedy Central or Netflix, he recorded it himself. And it’s the best special I’ve seen in five years.

Justin: Yeah, I totally agree. I sincerely think that this guy is the heir to the throne. Like, as far as I’m concerned, Dave Chappelle is still the king. I’m sure we’ll do a future episode about him. Maybe next episode. But Normand is climbing rapidly, and I think it’s that hard work that he puts in both to his craft and to promoting himself and making himself work. I think he just believes that he’s got that talent level. And like you said, he’s self-released this special, so he paid for it with his own money. He released it on YouTube, which is a big risk. And to me, I agree with what you just said in the last five years. I think it’s probably, aside from any of Chappelle’s specials, probably the best special, better than 98% of what you see on Netflix. And the reason for that, it’s just so packed with jokes like we just watched, what, 42nd clip? There’s like ten little jokes in there. Um, I heard him in an interview say, like people would say, oh, you’re such a good joke writer. Where does that come from? And he was like, I just hate silence. I hate bombing on stage so much that I just cram more jokes in there so I don’t have to deal with my feelings.

David: Okay, well, whatever works. Yeah, yeah. But definitely in terms of jokes per minute, I think I’ve never seen a comedian, a good comedian, pull off what he does in that hour long special. As you said, There’s got to be.

Justin: Thousands.

David: Yeah, it’s got to be. Jokes. Unbelievable amount of jokes. Yeah. Um, and the lesson for business people here is that he could have made money by selling it to Netflix or Comedy Central, but the audience would have been limited. He probably would have got lost in the shuffle, lost in the algorithm. They wouldn’t have been spending money to promote him. So just do it yourself.

Justin: Yeah.

David: If you’ve got insights, put them on YouTube, put them on LinkedIn, build an audience. It takes a while, but if you’re making the right content for your niche, eventually it will break through. So don’t be afraid of giving things away for free, because ultimately you’ll win. He knows every gig he puts on sells out. He’s super popular. He’s all over podcasts. He’s on, he said. Joe Rogan Show, he’s writing movies. His career’s completely done a 180 purely because of this special.

Justin: Yeah, 100%. And like we were saying earlier, he built up to it. So he released tons of stuff on YouTube. And even during the pandemic, he stayed active. And this just shows his dedication to his craft. He did some of the most, like, nightmarish gigs I could possibly imagine as a comedian. So he did like stuff on rooftops. He did. He did three sets in Central Park with just people gathering around, having picnics, but like they were there to see him. But it was. Yeah, he called it Park Normand.

David: Yeah.

Justin: Which is pretty funny. He did one set, I forget exactly. It was in New Jersey somewhere, and it was people in their cars, and instead of laughing, they were meant to honk their horns. I don’t know how much of a gimmick that was, but it’s it. It just shows the guy’s dedication. So, like, he needs to be a comedian and he’s found a way to break through and find his audience. And I think business leaders can do that too. You need to get the word out there. And this is the way to do it. Just give away content for free and show your expertise and the audience will come. But it takes time and it takes effort.

David: That outside stuff has been the pandemic.

Justin: Yeah yeah yeah.

David: So yeah, a great example of a pivot that is too right. So we saw so many businesses during Covid. Their events were canceled. There was no networking to go to. There was no one to meet. So they pivoted online just like he did. He pivoted online as well as to rooftops and parks and car parks. So yeah. Stay agile.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, that’s that was a really clever shoehorning of a business lesson.

David: That’s what we do.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. Just like Lexicon. We pivoted. Never mind. Um, but, yeah. No, the lesson is a good one. Keep at it. Um, have consistent messaging, consistently produce high value content, and eventually it’s going to break through. So like people often tend to think that comedians have overnight success because something goes viral and then people start to, okay, well, this guy came out of nowhere and it’s like, no, this is like you said, like over a decade of grinding. And then finally he’s broken through.

David: So yeah. But the whole time giving away content, not asking for anything in return, aside from the lols.

Justin: Aside from the lols. Um, okay, so we’ve already talked about how he’s a master of the craft. He’s a great joke writer, great joke teller. Um, so I think that brings us nicely to our second clip. Let’s let’s watch, shall we?

Clip: Now, my biggest fear is my phone dying. Yeah. Which is pretty good. 100 years ago, we had real problems. My babies got the black lung. She might not make it through the night. I’m like, I’m at 2%. I might actually have to feel something. Yeah. I’m hooked. Oh, jeez. Yeah, I actually carry a battery pack on me now in case my phone dies. That’s insane. That’s like carrying a flask to fill up your empty flask. That’s where I’m at. And I don’t even know. Can you quit a phone? You know, like, if somebody goes, hey, I gave up drinking, I go, good for you. If somebody goes, hey, I gave up my phone. I’m like, how’d you get here?

Justin: These are yeah, man, How did you get here? I, uh. I really relate to that. How did anybody get anywhere before we had smartphones? I think people were just lost all the time.

David: Yeah. Like, he probably would just be, like, near the person he wanted to be near. You just would never know the other side of the mall. Yeah. It must have been a nightmare. Yeah.

Justin: I’m sure we had techniques to deal with that back in the day.

David: You’d have to, like, ask them to the announcer to tell people where you were.

Justin: The other thing I. This is a tangent, but I think smartphones are the reason why people are late all the time now. Because back in the day, if you’re not at the meeting spot by the agreed upon time, your friends are out of there. Mhm. You know, they’re like, oh you must be dead or something. Let’s go. Whereas now you can be like, oh sorry, I’m stuck in traffic and really you’re still at home getting ready or whatever.

David: Universal truth, Justin. And that’s what Normand taps into.

Justin: Yes, absolutely. Thank you for getting us back on the rails.

David: I think a lot of his, uh, best bits are about those kinds of universal things, which could be trite, you know, talking about relationships, men and women, politics or whatever it is. Some of it’s so hacky and so labored that no one cares. But the way Normand does it, he just always finds a new angle into it. Yeah, because he starts from like an absurd proposition and just makes it funny.

Justin: Yeah, yeah. And he always proves his point with analogies, which is really cool. He’s like one of the best in the game at analogies. Um, because like, yeah, like you’re saying at first you’re going like, what is he talking about? And then he goes, well, it’s a lot like this. And then you’re no, it’s not. And then he proves his point. Um, it’s a really, really, uh, effective technique that he uses again and again.

David: Indeed, a wise man’s words are analogies and puzzles. Um, and he certainly has that toolbox.

Justin: Was that a quote from somebody?

David: I think it’s from a Norwegian pop album. Okay. Not as profound as it could have been. Oh, well, nonetheless, it’s true.

Justin: Hey, wisdom can come from anywhere.

David: Indeed, indeed. So I think another lesson from this is that we spoke in the last lesson about how he self funded, self promoted, put himself out there and that’s when he broke through. What we’re seeing here is a clip from David Letterman.

Justin: Uh, no, this is from Conan.

David: Conan, but the old style of breaking through. Yeah. Once upon a time, if you were on Conan, David Letterman, that was it. You were. You were the next big thing. But over the last decade, like he was saying that he’s done, like ten of those didn’t really give him any traction at all because no one watches TV anymore. Yeah. So he’s tapped into that new zeitgeist so successfully in a way that just didn’t exist a decade earlier.

Justin: Yeah, yeah, like back in the day, you go on Johnny Carson on The Tonight Show and that’s it. That’s the golden ticket. Like, if you do well there, you know you’re going to get a movie, TV deal, comedy special, you’re going to get the work. But now audiences are so spread out and like you said, not as many people are watching TV that it’s really important to adopt a 360 degree approach.

David: Absolutely, because just like in PR, no one is reading newspapers anymore. So if you’re giving all your money to Ogilvy. Sorry, guys. Then you’re wasting your money. Because who is the Bangkok Post? Give it to Lexicon. They’ll give you a 360 approach targeting your client at every touch point.

Justin: Nice.

David: Too hard on the sales.

Justin: Uh, no, I think I think that’s exactly right. Um, but that’s what he did. So, like. Yeah. So he did all of these late night shows, killed on all of them, and then it wasn’t really getting him to where he wanted to be. He’d get a little bump from it and then he’d go back in. Obviously he’s been funny for a long time, so he’s doing decently at clubs, but he’s not taking it to that next level. So branching out, tapping into new mediums and reaching the audience where they are. That’s the key to bringing them to that next level.

David: Absolutely. With creative communication and originality, I guess we should talk about this original tone of voice literally with this guy. Yeah, he has an original tone of voice.

Justin: I think that’s just a gift, though, because he just naturally sounds that ridiculous comedy voice. Yeah, he sounds like a cartoon character. I want to see him in a cartoon of some kind at some point. Hey, hey. Yeah, like, I don’t know, like an animal that’s a cop or something like that in a future Pixar movie of some kind. But that’s the next stage. Definitely.

David: Definitely. But for businesses, be unique, stand out, use creative language, and tap into new mediums in order to emulate the kind of success Mark Norman is having.

Justin: I think there’s also a lesson just on communication that’s worth mentioning. I mean, we’ve talked about this before, but this guy’s word economy is really second to none. Like every single word has a purpose. And he uses very creative language. He uses analogies, metaphors, and similes. And it’s good. It’s and they’re original. We mentioned in the George Orwell episode never use a metaphor or simile or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print. I’m pretty sure I quoted that accurately. He did, and he does the opposite of that. He uses completely fresh out there analogies, and the results speak for themselves.

David: I’ve got a couple in my mind, but I don’t want to say them on camera. But he definitely does. Yeah.

Justin: Well, are you thinking about the one in particular like you go to a gentleman’s establishment?

David: I’m thinking of Q1.

Justin: Oh, okay. Mine’s actually the one I’m thinking of. Is not that bad. Go ahead. He he says like, so I’m going to butcher this. But the idea is guys like, they’ll go to the club trying to pick up a girl, but then they’ll fail and then say, all right, well, never mind, let’s just go to the strip club. And then he says, that makes no sense. That’s like going fishing and not catching a fish and then going like, ah, never mind, let’s just go to the aquarium.

David: Yeah. I was thinking about his one with the guys. We don’t wear makeup, but when we’re trying to persuade a lady. Oh, yes. Our personality is our makeup.

Justin: Um, yeah. Yeah, maybe we’ll just leave it at that. Yes, you can, you can go check this out on YouTube.

David: Yes, yes. Please do. He’s very good.

Justin: Yeah. Um. All right, so we’ve been talking about this 360 degree approach to marketing and how that can create success for a guy like Mark Norman, but how it can work for you as well. Business leaders out there. So next up here, we’ve got a clip from a podcast, Famous podcast.

Clip: But if you look at the building, the building is blown outward.Like it’s blown out. Now, I’m obviously not a bomb expert, but I talked to one. You should see your act.

Justin: Calling out, making fun of Joe Rogan, the biggest podcaster in the world. Uh, and the kingmaker that he is. Just shows Mark Normand is a comedian. He claims he can’t turn it off. No. Um, it’s a pretty simple joke, but just in the moment. Um. And then somebody else, one of the other guests, goes like, oh, the moment needed levity. Um, which is funny. And even Joe Rogan himself, who probably doesn’t like being called out like that or made fun of necessarily. Um, he had to laugh at that. And he like, he like you said, Rogan’s like he can’t help himself.

David: There’s not many. You know, obviously, we’re both fans of comedy and you’re around a lot of comedians all the time. I’m often surprised when I see a comedian get interviewed that they tend to be not that funny sometimes because they’re very like, you know, they’re they’re thinking about the jokes more than you’re delivering a joke on stage. Often it’s very structured. And if you hear someone like Louis talk, they can be very academic rather than just, you know, silly all the time. Mark Normand is just a machine. Every time I hear him speak, he. He can’t go 30s without saying something funny. It’s just it’s so instinctive for him. Yeah. That’s why he’s such a good podcast host and guest. Because he’s just pure funny.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so actually, that he was not able to turn it off, he. So this is him on the Joe Rogan Podcast. Obviously, it’s the biggest podcast in the world. Um, he also has two of his own podcasts. So he’s got, uh, I forget what it was Tuesdays with stories with Joe list.

David: Uh, Tuesdays.

Justin: Yeah. We’re not going to argue. He’s American. He would say Tuesdays.

David: With Joe List. And we might be drunk with some Sam Morrii.

Justin: That’s right and Joe List actually said, uh, he’s such a great podcast co-host because he just can’t. He is just funny. He just exudes it and he can’t turn it off. Um, but he goes. But sometimes it’s difficult when you have to be serious or professional or something like that. He’s just incapable of turning off the funny. So I can’t imagine what he’d be like, I don’t know, in a boardroom meeting or like at a funeral or something like that.

David: Yeah, yeah.

Justin: It would be funny. And sometimes you need that.

David: Absolutely. So he’s found his calling. Like, obviously podcasts are the modern radio. Yeah. People he’s got two a week, four hours a week of new content every week. And they’re very entertaining. He has the guest on whatever it might be, but he also uses it to workshop jokes. Yeah. Sam Morril podcast the last 20 minutes is just workshopping jokes. Yeah. So he’s using it for his professional purposes, too. Um, and I think the lesson here for businesses is certainly to do podcasting and reach out to all the guests, all the stuff we mentioned with the Patrice episode. But don’t be afraid that your industry is too niche either. Obviously Mark Normand is quite broad. Everyone can laugh at Mark Normand, but even if you’re an accounting firm or a law firm, you’re probably passionate about that in the same way that he is about comedy. So like we are with this, I think our passion comes through and I hope that’s what you would enjoy the show. But if you’re a lawyer or your accountant or whatever you might be doing, get the word out. Show people your passion. Show people what you care about and rewards will come.

Justin: Yeah. Totally agree. Just to add to that. There’s something to be said for not being afraid to speak off the cuff. I know that might be a little bit tricky for business people in various sectors. Obviously you’re dealing with confidential information. You have things that you don’t necessarily want to give away. But this made me think of this when you were talking about like, he’s just workshopping jokes, uh, live or it’s recorded, but he’s doing it live while they’re doing the podcast, and some great stuff can come from that. Definitely. So, like just giving yourself the opportunity to think out loud, you might stumble onto something, um, that you wouldn’t have come up with otherwise. So, um, if you put yourself in an environment where you’re speaking in an unscripted way like this, some, some gold can come from that comedy gold or just insights that that your clients will be, will be really happy to hear. And then you can, like we mentioned with Patrice O’Neil, you can chop everything down into snippets, share the best parts on social media, and drive traffic to the full video elsewhere. Absolutely. Um, yeah. Like we’re doing right here.

David: And obviously during the last two years, there’s been a lot of webinars and things like that. I think they’re dead webinars. No one wants to go to a webinar anymore, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to enjoy the content. I think things like this. How many people would tune in to watch this live? I don’t know, at least a million, I guess, but probably a lot more would watch the clips on LinkedIn. So the good thing about something like this is that it has more long form longevity. Um. It’s evergreen. These lessons will be as true next year as they are this year. So for whatever industry you’re in, Show your thought leadership. Get together with the people in your company or with your clients, and help your clients to see what’s coming in the future, because you generally will be able to help them get there. So you don’t need to give away all your technical skills. We don’t need to show people how to write in this podcast, for example. But what we’re doing here is showing that we have expertise in industry. We can help you. And if you want to get involved, reach out to us.

Justin: Yeah. Good stuff. Lead conversations. That’s it.

David: Be thought leaders. Wrong podcast.

Justin: Be, be funny. Should we? Is this. Are we done here or are we wrapping this up? Okay. Good stuff. All right.

David: Until next month. Thank you very much.

Justin: Thanks a lot. I’m Kevin Hart.

Clip: Kevin hart. Yeah, that’s me. I’m in whiteface. I grew about a foot.