David: Hello, welcome to another edition of Bangkok Thought Leaders. I’m here today with one of Bangkok’s true thought leaders, Ian Pascoe, CEO and Managing Partner of Grant Thornton here in Thailand. Ian, thank you for being with me today.

Ian Pascoe: Great to be here.

David: So it’s unusual for you to be on the other side of the desk. Usually you’re the host with the most.

Ian Pascoe: I’m feeling quite, a bit lower David today.

David: Well, Ian, you’ve been here in Thailand for almost 25 years with Grant Thornton in Thailand. You must have seen so many changes in that time.

Ian Pascoe: Oh yes. I guess I arrived in the aftermath of Tom Yum Goong, with an exchange rate of 56 and interest rates then at around about 17 percent. Since that time, I guess we’ve had a low of about 27 and interest rates falling to virtually nothing. But I guess that’s on the economic front itself. Bangkok has changed enormously.

David: In what ways have you seen it change?

Ian Pascoe: Well, the skyline, for starters. I think every month we seem to get a new hotel and another condominium block and another office block, and we’ve got another whole city being built down the road. I think it’s moved from a business perspective. I’ve seen Thai businesses are very different now in that they are much more outward looking. When I was first here, it was almost unheard of for any Thai business to invest offshore. I think CP in China was probably sort of a big thing. That was the first one that was really going outside. Now, if you look at the figures, there’s more investment by Thai companies outside the country than inside the country.

David: Half the English Premier League.

Ian Pascoe: Yes. Well, that’s right. We have bought the Premier League. Cities and what else? All sorts of things we’ve been buying. New airports and the whole air travel has changed enormously. Thais are travelling a lot more. People are travelling more here. The cost of going, I won’t include the last couple of years because that’s obviously been, and as you know I’ve been involved with some of the airlines, it’s been a disastrous time. But the mobility, the amount of people that actually move now, that are travelling, people with passports, people with credit cards, it’s become much more international. Everyone used to be much more focused on an agrarian economy. The amount of people actually that are driving money from that agrarian economy now is virtually nothing compared to the services being offered, the amount of people setting up their own businesses. All our staff are leaving to go and set up a trading business and working on laptops in Starbucks. It’s a very, very different economy.

I guess one case in point, I think when I arrived there were maybe three, possibly four Italian restaurants in Bangkok. I think I got three or four. And I think there’s something like 380 in Bangkok now, and that’s just Italian when you think of everything else that’s there. It’s much more cosmopolitan. You don’t need to bring things in. Everything’s available here. So it’s changed enormously.

David: So you’d say the biggest change has been the emergence of the middle class.

Ian Pascoe: I think that’s a good way of putting it. It certainly has. But in saying that, there’s also been, I think, a much greater disparity between the have and the have-nots in Thailand. I’ve seen it. It is one of the worst in the world, and I’ve actually seen that happening. I’ve seen much more concentration of wealth. Now, any big deal you see is pretty much one of four, possibly five family groups that are doing that now. It’s really become concentrated, I think, to scary levels. And hopefully that will change before society makes it change. And when society makes things change, it’s never very pretty.

David: We don’t want to get into that one too much. Ian, you work with clients in all sorts of industries. You mentioned the airline sector, for example. As we come out of COVID, what are some of the common challenges you’re seeing across industries?

Ian Pascoe: Well, businesses have had a hell of a time over the last couple of years. And as we’re starting to put COVID behind us, we’re now faced with even greater challenges. I think businesses are really facing issues, and I was doing a talk to a group of very young, successful businesses the other day, and they’re facing challenges that in their lifetime they’ve never seen. I’m particularly referring to things like inflation and rising interest rates.

If you look since Tom Yum Goong, we’ve pretty much had low inflation, low interest rates, and other than a few bumps with bird flu, pig flu, SARS, the 2010 red and yellow shirts, and the floods, we’ve generally had pretty prosperous times. A bit of anemic growth, but it has been growing all the time. Now, this significant inflation and rising interest rates are things people haven’t experienced before. And really, it comes with both, as well as major geopolitical issues, which are also driving inflation, along with supply chain challenges and excesses. These are problems that many have never seen before, and I think it’s scary for a lot of them.

David: Another major trend that I’ve seen Grant Thornton ahead of the curve on is the aging society. I know you did a really great campaign recently around insights, and I’ve never seen that before. Most companies are still focusing on COVID. You got ahead of that issue. How can businesses understand that better and take advantage of the coming trend?

Ian Pascoe: I likened it a few years ago in one of my talks. The age demographics used to look like a Thai temple, with the bulk of younger people at the bottom. Now it’s more like a bulge, almost like a bowl of miso soup. It is a big challenge. Thailand is no longer a place where you have an abundance of human resources and human capital. It’s becoming less and less, and it’s going to become a real issue.

With birth rates down at around 1.4 to 1.5 per couple, you don’t have to be Einstein to work out that if two people produce one and a half, your population is going down. It’s always been a place where if you have a problem, you throw more people at it. We see that a lot. But now, you don’t have the people to throw at the problem. It wasn’t necessarily a great strategy anyway.

David: The 12 7-Eleven workers.

Ian Pascoe: Exactly. We need it painted quickly, so we put five people to paint it rather than two. I’m being facetious, but that abundant workforce is just not there anymore. So that’s going to lead to two problems. Resources to actually run your business, and who is providing the revenue and taxes to support an aging population. Who is going to look after them?

But like anything, where there’s an issue, there’s also opportunity. There are really good opportunities for people who want to plan ahead and think strategically about these issues.

David: For those watching at home, do check out this article and series by Grant Thornton. It’s fantastic. I guess there are opportunities in aging care, whether through technology or housing. And I think you’re being modest, Ian. One thing that stood out to me was outsourcing. The economy five years from now, it will be very difficult to staff teams. So what I took from that is to focus on the core and outsource the rest.

Ian Pascoe: Yes, because it’s been a trend for businesses to build everything internally. I need an accounting department, so I build one. I need a marketing department, so I build one. I need suppliers, so I acquire them. But really, that’s a distraction from your core business. Stick to your knitting. What do you know best?

Some would say a company should just be IP, a board of directors, and senior management, and outsource the rest. Someone else will do it better because they specialize in it. They also have economies of scale and can scale more effectively. You’re de-risking your business because someone else is taking on the risk, especially in inflationary times. Rising prices, wages, and technology costs can be managed by the outsourcing partner. So yes, in inflationary times and with an aging population, outsourcing is a fantastic approach.

David: I think it’s a great example of how Grant Thornton guides businesses. During COVID, everyone had the same question, where do we go from here? And I think you did a great job helping people understand that. Your content was bold and different. You took a strong stance on personal branding. I saw you as a weatherman, a news host, and even Robin Hood.

Ian Pascoe: A clown.

David: You did all sorts of different things. So why take such a bold approach to executive branding?

Ian Pascoe: One reason is to enjoy it and have fun. I’ve always liked entertaining. Maybe that comes from my daughter, who is becoming an actress. But it doesn’t matter how serious the message is, there is always a way to communicate it in an engaging way.

We all need to be individual. I saw so much mundane content, another webinar, and people got tired of that. We had to do something different to stand out. If you want people to engage, you have to make it interesting. Especially when people are at home with so many distractions, you need to capture attention. If you’re having fun, you do more of it, and it doesn’t feel like a burden.

When I do things with staff, like Robin Hood or Buzz Lightyear, it’s to engage them, make them laugh, and still deliver serious messages. If it’s just the boss standing there in a suit, they probably won’t listen.

David: I think that sums it up well. There’s so much B2B content that is dry and forgets we’re talking to humans. If you make it engaging, it’s more effective. Final question, Ian. You are a great storyteller. Who are some of your favourite storytellers?

Ian Pascoe: You’re not bad yourself, David.

David: Thank you.

Ian Pascoe: I think Richard Branson is a great example. He’s inspirational, but he also tells great stories. People should think about who they listen to and why they like them. Most of it comes down to storytelling. Richard Branson is probably one of the best storytellers I’ve seen.

David: Thank you very much, Ian.

Ian Pascoe: Thank you.

David: And for those watching at home, do follow Ian on LinkedIn. He’s posting regularly with great content. And do check out the Grant Thornton website for more insights into outsourcing and future trends. Thank you, Ian.

Ian Pascoe: Thank you, David.